Perming a Character

[William Hayes]

Hi all,

A topic I wanted to discuss here is Perming (permanently killing) your Character.

As you all know, once you decide to perm your character you cannot revive that character. It is and will forever be dead.

I will give my personal opinion here and leave this open so other folks can chime in as well - I believe that permanently killing a character can be an excellent way to end a story arc and provide some deep roleplay for others involved in that death. It creates great avenues for RP that would continue on long past your characters death.

But with that being said, I have some advice. First of all, in my opinion, you should not permanently kill your main character. Put them into a coma or have them disappear for a while, sure, but dont kill them off where you'll never be able to play them again. I've been in the RP world for many years and have seen dozens of folks permanently kill their main character, only to come to regret it fairly quickly after. While it may feel right in the moment, take a deep breath, and sleep on it. Don't make a heat of the moment decision to kill the character you've invested the most into.

That's not to say you can't kill a main character - it certainly has its place, but you need to be ABSOLUTELY SURE it's something YOU want to do.

My second piece of advice is to ignore anyone who pressures you into permanently killing your character. Perming is a big decision especially for characters you've put a lot of time into developing, and the choice to kill that character is reserved exclusively for you. Don't listen to anyone who is telling you that you should - it's not up to them, it's up to you.

Open for discussion/responses below.

Hayes

 

[Amadahy]

I agree. Perma your character if you are 100% sure you are ready for it. NEVER let others force you to do such a thing.

 

[Argyle Blaine]

My take is this. We're story tellers and want to provide great story, that's literally the start and end goal, but there is such a thing as bad story telling. So how do we get around that? I like to work on a priority system.

The Immersive World > Everyone else in it > You

You give birth to your character, but you don't make them who they are and by trying to force it you actually cause damage. The immersive world lays down the foundations and laws of the environment you play in, the people who inhabit it make up the world and everything you do will be judged and remembered and then there's you, a simple piece to a much greater structure. Never be afraid to take damage or even have a character killed, because these moments can actually add to that characters credibility and your own reputation, plus it gives memories and influences those around you.

Many people do it this way. You > everyone else > the immersive world.

Wrong attitude and it's arse backwards from what I do. It's the flaw of human nature to take a self focused approach, to see what you can get out of it for you. You care what people think because deep down we all need that acknowledgement that we're doing good, but not to the point where you lose the centre focus of what you perceive as your story and why should the immersive world matter when you are only there to have fun and are prepared to dump that community for another anyway down the line... Here's the biggest flaw with that... it's see through and always ends in tragedy. You want peoples respect, then add to their story, do not take away from it. You want their praise, prepare to sacrifice everything for everyone else, you want to be admired... put into the immersive world, and preserve its integrity and as such the immersive world will reward you by acknowledging you as part of it.


Selflessness reaps reward and selfishness strips you of everything in the RP world. It is not something YOU can control and by acknowledging that you will be acknowledged, it is that simple. In reality this is the opposite, but not in RP communities.


Oh yeah, most importantly... see all those other RP'ers. You NEED them. Without them you are nothing and without you they have other people to turn to. The RP community will shun bads and praise goods and to ignore this has caused the destruction of many RP communities. RP'ers are VERY judgey, and nothing comes before the immersive world, because one group doesn't dictate the view point of EVERY group in a community. By focusing on the immersive world first and prioritising it, you touch a wider player base.

With that said... that includes death. Every main character I have ever made has died at the hands of someone else. I consider it a reward if the RP is justified and it is immersive. I am not advocating for forced perma's and it would be ridiculous to perma to rule violations and terrible roleplay, but there is such a thing as story structured integrity and at that point I lay the question on the player themselves... with the above acknowledged, what do you want for you?

 

[Molly Wong]

My take is this. We're story tellers and want to provide great story, that's literally the start and end goal, but there is such a thing as bad story telling. So how do we get around that? I like to work on a priority system.

The Immersive World > Everyone else in it > You

You give birth to your character, but you don't make them who they are and by trying to force it you actually cause damage. The immersive world lays down the foundations and laws of the environment you play in, the people who inhabit it make up the world and everything you do will be judged and remembered and then there's you, a simple piece to a much greater structure. Never be afraid to take damage or even have a character killed, because these moments can actually add to that characters credibility and your own reputation, plus it gives memories and influences those around you.

Many people do it this way. You > everyone else > the immersive world.

Wrong attitude and it's arse backwards from what I do. It's the flaw of human nature to take a self focused approach, to see what you can get out of it for you. You care what people think because deep down we all need that acknowledgement that we're doing good, but not to the point where you lose the centre focus of what you perceive as your story and why should the immersive world matter when you are only there to have fun and are prepared to dump that community for another anyway down the line... Here's the biggest flaw with that... it's see through and always ends in tragedy. You want peoples respect, then add to their story, do not take away from it. You want their praise, prepare to sacrifice everything for everyone else, you want to be admired... put into the immersive world, and preserve its integrity and as such the immersive world will reward you by acknowledging you as part of it.


Selflessness reaps reward and selfishness strips you of everything in the RP world. It is not something YOU can control and by acknowledging that you will be acknowledged, it is that simple. In reality this is the opposite, but not in RP communities.


Oh yeah, most importantly... see all those other RP'ers. You NEED them. Without them you are nothing and without you they have other people to turn to. The RP community will shun bads and praise goods and to ignore this has caused the destruction of many RP communities. RP'ers are VERY judgey, and nothing comes before the immersive world, because one group doesn't dictate the view point of EVERY group in a community. By focusing on the immersive world first and prioritising it, you touch a wider player base.

With that said... that includes death. Every main character I have ever made has died at the hands of someone else. I consider it a reward if the RP is justified and it is immersive. I am not advocating for forced perma's and it would be ridiculous to perma to rule violations and terrible roleplay, but there is such a thing as story structured integrity and at that point I lay the question on the player themselves... with the above acknowledged, what do you want for you?

I don't think I like this take, for the most part. Perma your character because everyone else will think you're a jerk if you don't? Doesn't that just come back down to forced perma because you only kill the character because you think everyone else believes you should? Am I interpreting this wrong? This sticks in my craw pretty hard.

For a lot of people RP Is not just a game but a way of coping with things in RL. Sometimes it's healthy, sometimes it's not, but perma'ing a character because you feel you have to to earn other's respect is not healthy in any way shape or form.

 

[Argyle Blaine]

I don't think I like this take, for the most part. Perma your character because everyone else will think you're a jerk if you don't? Doesn't that just come back down to forced perma because you only kill the character because you think everyone else believes you should? Am I interpreting this wrong? This sticks in my craw pretty hard.

For a lot of people RP Is not just a game but a way of coping with things in RL. Sometimes it's healthy, sometimes it's not, but perma'ing a character because you feel you have to to earn other's respect is not healthy in any way shape or form.

I get where you're coming from here, so I like to think of it as situational. Every situation is different so for the most part it's up to players judgement. We've all seen scenes play out followed by executions with little to no justification and the key point that stands out is a lack of consideration towards the person being executed. Yet I've seen scenes where a character is executed justly falling under actions having consequences or something of that nature.

I may over think it, but at it's core I put it down to scene analysis. I hope that makes sense?

 

[William Hayes]

I get where you're coming from here, so I like to think of it as situational. Every situation is different so for the most part it's up to players judgement. We've all seen scenes play out followed by executions with little to no justification and the key point that stands out is a lack of consideration towards the person being executed. Yet I've seen scenes where a character is executed justly falling under actions having consequences or something of that nature.

I may over think it, but at it's core I put it down to scene analysis. I hope that makes sense?

In the end, as a community (and not just my personal view) our stance is that you cannot force somebody to perma nor should you pressure them to do so. Folks can get very invested into their characters and at the end of the day it is THEIR decision to make regardless of the situation. Just wanted to clarify that position

 

[Argyle Blaine]

Yup, just spinning over how my head sees it. Without multiple view points you will never get the best answer. My stance is personal, it's a self rule. I try to consider everyone involved and believe me I get character attachment. But to me, some things are worth more so if it's earned, legit IC, it makes sense and it adds to the integrity of the story... then yes, I absolutely will perma. I hope my answer suffices.

 

[Sue McKenzie]

We're here for stories. If you got story to give, alive or dead. give us those stories. Not doing so is power gaming. Withholding us from those wonderful experiences.

Some people RP to experience or explore difficult emotional aspects of their life.

For instance, I play Colin to help me be ok with crying or getting upset. Any man under the sun knows from a young age your told to not cry because you're a boy, but it's been fun letting some of that out as Colin.

You're more than welcome to put rules on yourself when it comes to perma. I have a friend, that if she's shot/killed. She permas. Everytime. Which for me is sad, because she's a fantastic role player and I would love to see how far she can take RP, but I also respect it.

I personally, like to see stories grow and shape and weave between each other. The redemption Arch's, the falling from grace, Avenging someone... Getting revenge on someone... Manipulation... Etc etc. When you perma you can enhance or push those stories... But you may very well end some too.

I agree with The Babe. You can make a flash in the pan character or a slow burn character that eventually permas. But keep your main RP, the one you love and give your all in, keep that one going until you are really ready.

 

[Lucas Joyce]

I will never perma my character unless I get tomahawk'd by @Addison Flanagan as revenge

I agree with what was said though, I've made so many memories and had so many relationships with my main character and I don't want to one day wake up and be like "I shouldn't of perma'd" and then regret it constantly. I know some situations would look like you would perma but personally I don't want to end months of roleplay for one situation.

 

[Evelyn "Evee" Carter]

I truly believe that many folks that have a main character that really gets time put into developing it and building a personality, struggle to want to let go of that character because of the amount of time is put into it. I generally don't really consider perma'ing a main character until I truly feel the story potential for them has dried up for the most part. That said even in times you feel a character is stale or has no where to go all it can take is meeting someone new to re-ignite that spark for the character, so I generally don't perma a character I really invest a lot into because I know I'd regret it.

 

[Tommy True]

Permaing isn’t the only way to conclude a character’s story either. Some of my favorite stories of all time are when the hero rides into the sunset toward a new horizon having been transformed (for better or worse) by the experiences and people that led him there. I have known a couple of characters that did this and I found it profoundly moving and sad because I didn’t know if I was ever going to see them again.

 

[Ash Conan]

I'm really glad for this post, because from my personal experience, i almost permad my character when the time and the story fit all perfectly in place, however i was also in doubt and was not absoluetly sure, so i decided against it and put it coma, the story still played itself, and new arcs has developed and went different ways that i never thought of.

 

[Raoul Tejada]

I disagree with the idea main characters should *never* be perma'd. At some point Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid gotta go out in their blaze of glory.

 

[Wesley Webb]

I do agree with this sentiment, and do agree you should never feel forced to perma, but it also depends on the type of character in question.

ESPECIALLY in the setting we play in, characters who are malicious or hurt and wrong a lot of people without rehabilitation only really have two avenues their story could end - Death or leaving the state. While in my opinion it is of course the characters player who decides how and when they die, to be 'immortal' makes interactions past a certain point Disingenuous.

For me, MOST of my characters are Perma-Able but only with certain stipulations or from very specific situations. But even deciding not to perma a character, it's still possible to make lasting changes to a character either physically or mentally - And there are good ways to make the story great regardless if they die or not.

 

[William Hayes]

I disagree with the idea main characters should *never* be perma'd. At some point Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid gotta go out in their blaze of glory.

Well, it's a recommendation and not a rule. Every single person I've ever talked to about perming their main character has regretted it. Giving some personal recommendation here to put a lot of thought into it and explore other avenues before you make a decision you can't ever go back on.

 

[Molly Wong]

I do agree with this sentiment, and do agree you should never feel forced to perma, but it also depends on the type of character in question.

ESPECIALLY in the setting we play in, characters who are malicious or hurt and wrong a lot of people without rehabilitation only really have two avenues their story could end - Death or leaving the state. While in my opinion it is of course the characters player who decides how and when they die, to be 'immortal' makes interactions past a certain point Disingenuous

Disagree. There are people IRL who get away with doing bad things until they die of old age. Sure maybe they may consider a cooldown once in a while, fade into the background and then pop back out when things have calmed, but it's *still* their decision and you're still trying to force a perma here. You're still telling someone they should feel pressured to perma which in my opinion is wrong.

 

[Meabh [Maeve] O'Driscoll]

ESPECIALLY in the setting we play in, characters who are malicious or hurt and wrong a lot of people without rehabilitation only really have two avenues their story could end - Death or leaving the state. While in my opinion it is of course the characters player who decides how and when they die, to be 'immortal' makes interactions past a certain point Disingenuous.

Big agree here! If you RP your character in such a way that it does or is very likely to cause other perma's, then you should be RP'ing with that in mind and be willing to take the extreme consequences that go with that. It's a good idea not to have full out outlaws as your main if you're going to be attached to your main.

But in everything, always give other players the OUT. If you are the one with the upper hand, make sure other players feel like they have a way.

Whenever a situation cumulates in a "execution style" murder or killing, then both parties involved should immediately take steps to disengage from one another's storylines so there's no toxic cycle of one party continually trying to incap the the other until one permas.

It's all about mutual respect. Respect for others and respect for the greater, overarching storylines.

 

[Wesley Webb]

Disagree. There are people IRL who get away with doing bad things until they die of old age. Sure maybe they may consider a cooldown once in a while, fade into the background and then pop back out when things have calmed, but it's *still* their decision and you're still trying to force a perma here. You're still telling someone they should feel pressured to perma which in my opinion is wrong.

I mean in the space of what we are given to roleplay in, it would be impossible for this to happen depending on what the person has done. If they've wronged enough people, people will hunt them down forever. People will want retribution and for life altering wrongdoings to not have consequences feels disingenuous, at least in our setting. Those consequences don't have to be death, but even severe injuries realistically take their tole.

Which is why i also said leaving state is an option instead. Even if its not permanent , a few month break from the character will minutely 'refresh' the heat they have on their head. There is no pressure to perma, but the more a character like this avoids consequences (even when caught) the less anyone will want anything to do with them which hurts the villains RP too.

Which is why i agree with what Saffron said. It's a good idea not to have violent outlaws or villain characters as your main.

 

[Forrest Cordle]

Perma's are fun, Love the Perma king <3

 

[Charity Grussin]

My experience with perma is that, almsot 10 years ago I've permaed my first character. I might have not have the bit of thought into it, and I feel confident enough to share this with the community, but don't let any real life or OOC feelings get into this too.

The reasons I see people perma are either it fits to the story, or they see no continuously to the story of the character so just decide to end it.
In any decision you make with the perma, decide it after a short break, we all need some break from roleplay or from a certain character, just to make sure it's not a phase.

I am not trying to speak to people as kids, but we all go through things in our RL and I think it can affect our characters too and our future for them. If you feel stuck with a character storyline wise, try changing it, try to make something new? Or drop it, maybe a break and roleplay with other character might refresh your creativity, maybe ideas will come up. And even if you do bring it a few months later, new people around usually help to change character's stories and destinations.

So to sum it up, like many said, don't rush things up, there's so many options, unless you breaths and even slept on the idea.
It might be exciting to see what happens after your character's death or the scene of your character's death, but living Outside the character, you might regret it.

I still miss that character from 10 years ago, now that I am more roleplay wise.