Government Rework Poll

[Charlotte Graywood]

As previously mentioned in our community newsletter, one of the larger ongoing discussions lately has been the possible return of player government and what that could look like moving forward. We'd like to hear what players would most like to see from political roleplay.​

Governor System
One option is the return of a traditional governor role similar to previous iterations of player government. Under this structure, a player-elected governor would serve as a political figure for story purposes. While intended to support roleplay and community interaction, the role would not function as an administrative position or possess control over server systems, departments, or rules.

Local Mayors
Another option is local mayor positions tied to individual towns. Under this concept, towns would not permanently or automatically possess government positions. Instead, mayorships could emerge through player petitions and local activity. Elections could then be held for towns interested in pursuing political roleplay. Mayors would primarily act as roleplay anchors for their communities, helping organize events, encourage local storytelling, and represent the interests and identity of their towns.

Both, Neither, or Something Else
Talks have also included the possibility of implementing both systems together, allowing local mayors to operate beneath a broader governor structure. There is also the question of whether formal player government is currently necessary at all.

To weigh in, please cast your vote using the poll above.​

Additionally, you can provide your constructive input via commenting.​

 

[Robert Barlow]

In my opinion there isn't a need for a player government if the elected persons are not granted some form of executive power. The previous government ended up as little more than a figurehead because the powers granted to the governor (and state reps), especially executive appointments and the governors role in law enforcement, were taken away bit by bit and moved under "federal jurisdiction." Criminal laws got harder and harder to pass because of a concern on how the criminal RP'ers would react and if they aren't happy then that can affect LEO's RP interactions and so on and so on. This left the government with more or less nothing to do in political roleplay. I understand why those changes were made and it's unfortunate that the RP got where it was, but unless Admin+ is willing to grant some actual authority to the role, there's really nothing more to it than just rp'ing as a community organizer.

A cornerstone of American politics and thus political roleplay is the system of checks and balances and by the end, the executive role had no authority to do anything like that. The judiciary was a no-touching zone (not a gripe at the judiciary, they work hard as fuck but the player government lost any political rp opportunities with them) and LEO was basically functioning as its own branch of the government without any government oversight. The governor was also a bit limited on economic RP because things like government grants require management approval and in the interest of balancing server economy it was an arduous process.

All of this is to say there just isn't anything for a player government to do other than shake hands and kiss babies and you can do that without having to navigate the limitations of the roll, and I know folks get frustrated when they get in the role and then get told all the things they can't do.

 

[Amelie Sterling]

" Criminal laws got harder and harder to pass because of a concern on how the criminal RP'ers would react and if they aren't happy then that can affect LEO's RP interactions and so on and so on."

This is one of the things that honestly drives me away from LEO RP personally, specifically with court cases which are slowly becoming more and more something of the past given now the only reasons criminals will go to court if they commit murder or agree to CC. Which the latter of which barely happens anymore. And as playing a crim as well there's just no drive because honestly there's just 0 risk with crim RP anymore as the only real consequence of committing crime anymore is just that you're in Sisika for x amount of time.

And from an LEO perspective, seeing crims who have had nothing but a history of murder, torture and countless attempted murders walk away from trials with X amount of years with a majority of such already considered served is very disheartening as it basically meant that all the work put into it on an IC perspective has essentially been for nothing. Although now with HHO being scrapped this is basically gone.

And even then, a criminal can go on a rampage for months, shooting people, robbing people / stores / banks. Torturing people and then if / once they get caught there's just nothing besides being sent to Sisika, which most don't really treat as a thing that changes them as pretty much as soon as they get out it's only a matter of time before that cycle of rampage continues.

This is a personal opinion but I think there needs to be harsher punishments put in place for criminal characters, and this is something that can be done if people who seek political RP can put in place if Admin+ would allow such. As I firmly believe that Crim RP would be a whole lot better if there was actual risk to it rather than just benching the character for X amount of time.

Although a point I'd like to bring up is that if we're bringing back the Gov. back in server, I think either the Marshal's Office or the Attorney General's office should be opened up again too, however I believe this is unlikely but I also like to think I'm not alone in the thought that these offices should be brought back. Also by no means am I meaning this in any malicious way, just simply adding my observations to this and I am welcoming any discussion further from this.

 

[Kuyana Safi]

I understand why those changes were made and it's unfortunate that the RP got where it was, but unless Admin+ is willing to grant some actual authority to the role, there's really nothing more to it than just rp'ing as a community organizer.

Very well said. This post hits the nail on the head in terms of my thoughts on the governor position.

 

[Robert Barlow]

This is one of the things that honestly drives me away from LEO RP personally, specifically with court cases which are slowly becoming more and more something of the past given now the only reasons criminals will go to court if they commit murder or agree to CC. Which the latter of which barely happens anymore. And as playing a crim as well there's just no drive because honestly there's just 0 risk with crim RP anymore as the only real consequence of committing crime anymore is just that you're in Sisika for x amount of time.

And from an LEO perspective, seeing crims who have had nothing but a history of murder, torture and countless attempted murders walk away from trials with X amount of years with a majority of such already considered served is very disheartening as it basically meant that all the work put into it on an IC perspective has essentially been for nothing. Although now with HHO being scrapped this is basically gone.

And even then, a criminal can go on a rampage for months, shooting people, robbing people / stores / banks. Torturing people and then if / once they get caught there's just nothing besides being sent to Sisika, which most don't really treat as a thing that changes them as pretty much as soon as they get out it's only a matter of time before that cycle of rampage continues.

This is a personal opinion but I think there needs to be harsher punishments put in place for criminal characters, and this is something that can be done if people who seek political RP can put in place if Admin+ would allow such. As I firmly believe that Crim RP would be a whole lot better if there was actual risk to it rather than just benching the character for X amount of time.

Although a point I'd like to bring up is that if we're bringing back the Gov. back in server, I think either the Marshal's Office or the Attorney General's office should be opened up again too, however I believe this is unlikely but I also like to think I'm not alone in the thought that these offices should be brought back. Also by no means am I meaning this in any malicious way, just simply adding my observations to this and I am welcoming any discussion further from this.

For government players, criminalrp was always really difficult to navigate. Our characters would get all this feedback from the citizens about "something needs to be done about these criminals" and you'd absolutely want to work within the government system towards that, but there is always a hard limit on what the in-game laws can do (speaking completely and totally for myself I am pro-perma death for certain crimes, but I have the luxury of not being management ).

What gov players ended up doing was trying to legislate criminals into better quality RP, especially around pacing, with very little success, mostly because bad crim rp is going to be bad crim rp. shout-out to all the good criminals out there .
That led to some super convoluted laws like HHO and was truly just players trying to navigate the RP as best as they could but being met with the dilemmas of "when does this become too much control over someone else's RP," which is literally what government is; setting policy that affects others' lives.

If govrp does come back, the powers and roles need to be hyper polished and very clear what the roles can't do, OR the roles need to be held by management so that players can interact with the government and there be the chance of actual policy being implemented as a result of those interactions, otherwise the governor will be doing a lot of "you'll need to ask the feds."

I loved governmentrp and my time in it, the needs of the server just seemed to move past a player government.

 

[Lee Colt]

I 100% agree with what @Robert Barlow said in his above comments when referring to the state government. For GovernmentRP to be truly meaningful, it needs to have some actual power, otherwise its just flavor with no substance. Now, that power has to be reasonable, and obviously has to consider OOC things like balance, crimRP enjoyment, and many other things that are hard to account for.

GovRP has always been tricky. While I found it extremely enjoyable during Lee's time in office as a State Rep, there were numerous challenges. For starters, during Lee's whole four terms, the legislature was almost never fully staffed. Lee himself was an emergency appointment, and then in every subsequent term either not enough people ran, or the ones that did resigned almost immediately or got arrested for crimes (looking at you Archer Cassidy ). Another problem, as Barlow stated above, was that the government was extremely limited in what it could actually do. There is nothing more disheartening than spending months of work getting feedback from players about important issues, writing a bill to try and combat those issues, then being told by admin that "oh, you can't do that." (No hate to staff or admin intended, I know y'all are just trying to look out for the server). Having to try and explain IC why certain things that we pushed for weren't actually being implemented was a tough thing to pull off, and was in part one of the reasons I haven't been around as much (and why Lee never ran for governor). Like Barlow said above, if state govrp does come back, the powers and roles need to be hyper polished and very clear about what the roles can and can't do.

All that said, SOME form of govrp would be nice. I do really like the idea of local, player & community centered governments. If a character can win the trust and support of a community IC, then letting that community recognize that character with a position of trust and authority is a really cool rp opportunity. I also like that this suggestion doesn't automatically create that for EVERY town, as that would be too much. Letting communities form organically and then create their own local governments seems, in my view, to be the best way to have some form of govrp without running into the same issues as before. One thing I would add is that the path for a community to create a local government would need to be spelled out and very clear. Same thing goes for what, if any, actual authority that position would hold.

 

[Amelie Sterling]

So after coming back to LEO for a while I would like to amend my statement about the Marshal's Office and AG's Office coming back. At the moment I do not think the Marshal's Office will be plausible with the current numbers in LEO if I am going to be completely honest.

But I do still stand on the ground that the Attorney General's Office should still be considered to be brought back with the Government being brought back. More so because I am in the belief that if the AG's office is brought back, there would be a fair few people that would be immediately interested in such.

Edit: No shade to the LEO folks, love you all, just a matter of perspective on numbers

 

[Levan Benashvili]

I would like to offer a different possibility for the folk to consider. Mayors, in my opinion, do very little in roleplay. They purely act as the "most popular person of the town" badge. Which is... fine I guess, but unnecesarly I would say. As for the governor role, I dunno really, they were way too high in their ivory tower for me to learn anything about the role itself or the politics that surrounded it, which is a criticism on its own.

What I could suggest instead is a district type of system where the state is divided into 2-3 sections with their own subgovernments. The point of this would be to allow differentiating laws, and thus legistative systems within each. So, Lemoyne could remain as the crown jewel but New Austin could have less regulations but stricter punishments. This could necessitate separate sheriff offices for each I suppose. In general, though, such a system could serve as an attraction for people to fill up those new positions, allow more possibilities for political roleplay, and we could still have a governor position acting as the mediator for the districts/counties/regions.

I would say that there can be a wiggle room for some laws where the 'federal government' sets an IC/OOC lower-upper boundaries for some punishments, and the districts would position themselves somewhere in between based on their characteristics. There is truly a lot to explore in the political scene that keeps going unrealized again and again. Or, simply, people like changes just for the sake of it, only to be frustrated soon after, and to give them the spark once again this could be an opportunity to do so.

 

[Liana Skysong]

What I could suggest instead is a district type of system where the state is divided into 2-3 sections with their own subgovernments. The point of this would be to allow differentiating laws, and thus legistative systems within each. So, Lemoyne could remain as the crown jewel but New Austin could have less regulations but stricter punishments. This could necessitate separate sheriff offices for each I suppose. In general, though, such a system could serve as an attraction for people to fill up those new positions, allow more possibilities for political roleplay, and we could still have a governor position acting as the mediator for the districts/counties/regions.

I love this idea, but the Sheriffs office as is struggles with pop and we just don't have the manpower to have more offices. If we start rountinely hitting 70+ a day, Maybe. But I also hate the idea of differing laws, cause then its just so much for court paperwork and general LEO work.

 

[Drey Shadowfox]

For government players, criminalrp was always really difficult to navigate. Our characters would get all this feedback from the citizens about "something needs to be done about these criminals" and you'd absolutely want to work within the government system towards that, but there is always a hard limit on what the in-game laws can do (speaking completely and totally for myself I am pro-perma death for certain crimes, but I have the luxury of not being management ).

What gov players ended up doing was trying to legislate criminals into better quality RP, especially around pacing, with very little success, mostly because bad crim rp is going to be bad crim rp. shout-out to all the good criminals out there .
That led to some super convoluted laws like HHO and was truly just players trying to navigate the RP as best as they could but being met with the dilemmas of "when does this become too much control over someone else's RP," which is literally what government is; setting policy that affects others' lives.

If govrp does come back, the powers and roles need to be hyper polished and very clear what the roles can't do, OR the roles need to be held by management so that players can interact with the government and there be the chance of actual policy being implemented as a result of those interactions, otherwise the governor will be doing a lot of "you'll need to ask the feds."

I loved governmentrp and my time in it, the needs of the server just seemed to move past a player government.

When I did the candidate thing, the roleplay was fun and I had 0 idea of what was going into it on that side of things. I learned a lot as a player from you and a lot of other people about the process and was looking forward to giving it another go on my character.

In RP, Drey learned the ins and outs from other governors and heeded their advice. Out of character, I stabbed at different people for information. Had I known then what I know now, I wouldn't have run.

Like you've basically said, running for governor was more, what you couldn't do, than what you could. You had to get a laundry list of things -> out of character <- ready to answer in character that weren't plausible.

Playing the "good guy" and finding out you truly can't affect meaningful RP that way as a government official was heartbreaking.

As it stands, I'll RP the talk of governor, because that's my character. Unless it's meaningful, I doubt i would ever run again, OOC, because of that meaningful barrier.

SO YES, governor and player run government, sure, but the roadblocks need to be figured out.

 

[Lynn Skysong]

I don't want to add to the echo chamber but I will also chime in. While I did not finish Lynn's term as State Rep, in the two months he was state rep we were not able to accomplish a single thing, despite a very active group in the Govt. We weren't even able to get a library named after someone, which is purely flavor, or create RP around stocking the local medical clinics. I loved the idea of player government but I do agree without the ability to accomplish anything, its purely ornamental and often can lead to characters frustrated with yours that you are not accomplishing anything.

 

[Frank Devine]

Hmm,

I've obviously been out of the loop for a looong while, years at this point, but as the original and first Governor, part of the original Management team, namer of the State of New Alexandria and creator of the original Constitution (which were voted on by the community) laws, punishments, and established the Legislature, Executive, and Judicial Branches of the community, presided over the first trial and navigated the politics of "taming" a lawless land, I wanted to give some history behind the reasoning for establishing such. It's up to yall which direction to take things.

Before WWRP, I was part of a GTA5 RP community for years, was part of staff, and became a criminal Defense Lawyer, eventually was handed the reigns and title of "Chief Justice". At that point there was no court systems or ways to amend the criminal code. I created a court system, not only for the juicy Court RP but to give people a chance to plead their innocence and keep balance of between criminal and LEO RP.

It fell on me, 1 person, to make the decisions that effected the whole community one way or the other, and that responsibility is a heavy, stressful one.

When Tiberione, the founder of this community (and was the original AG of the gta5 community) told me he was starting a RDR RP community, I was on board. He then had an idea of having a player run government, of which we would create a Governor position to oversee and connect all branches and balance every player's interest, kind of like a central hub of a bicycle wheel, I thought it would be brilliant way of having an IC presence, and could hold both IC meetings and OOC meetings of all branches that would be a balancing factor between civilian vs criminal vs lawmen RP. It also unloaded the burden from staff and admin+ to address such IC issues so they could focus on rule breaks and player reports, and the general duties of day to day and long term running of the community behind the scenes.

The original intent would be that power would be separate but equal. The legislature, accountable to voters in the se community, would be able to field concerns from the civilians and lawmen and amend the code of law to be able to address the ebbs and flows of the community dynamics... too much crime? Harsher penalties and other possible solutions that can be legislated. Too harsh of penalties and no crim rp? Relaxed punishments and abolishing of systems.

The Judiciary was there to help balance lawmen vs criminal vs civilian RP, and to give opportunities for court RP, and be a check on what could possibly become a corrupt and overbearing Law enforcement department.

The Governor was the executor, they couldnt create or establish laws, but they had the final decision (outside of "federal" aka staff) whether the law would be enacted, and also as stated before, be a balancing factor amongst all departments and branches by calling meetings and what not. They also had a fiduciary duty of nominating judges, the AG, Sheriff's, and other heads of departments, of which the legislature would be required to affirm or deny... again creating balance. They would also be responsible for creating and hosting state events, such as state fairs or whatever was required by what was going on at the time.

Again, I've been absent for a long while so I don't know the current dynamics, and there is such a thing as saturation where everything has been done and balanced to a point where maybe there isn't a need for these systems. Ya'll can figure out what's needed and what isn't, and it takes people interested in such a role, and maybe current staff are hesitant of changing too much around the edges for good reasons...

Just wanted to give a history and state that being the first Governor in an untamed and wild west was the best RP I had experienced, and for those that were there I hope ya'll enjoyed it as well.

Respectfully,
Francis R. Devine

P.s. sorry I fell off towards the end, between being management in 2 communities, here and NewDay RP (and the first Governor there setting up similar player run government, constitution, laws and systems) , and other factors in RL, i couldnt keep up and serve the communities the way they deserved. This place has a special spot in my heart. Cheers!