Law, Justice, and Retribution in the Old West [Semi-outdated but good information, submitted back in Nov.]

[Frank Devine]

Howdy Y'all,

Personal introduction; I'll begin with a brief introduction If you aren't familiar with myself I go by the overall nickname 'Zeke' as that was my first main character in GTA5 RP who had retired. In that community I was also appointed C. Justice and created, established, and administered the Justice system (Personnel, Procedures, Laws, Punishment, preside over Criminal / Civil Court and other Civil Hearings, ect) for about 2 years. It wasn't a perfect system, but we always did our best to balance it based on community feedback from all factions and what is as close as possible to what procedures are in 'real life'. I haven't been approached or asked to resume any similar responsibility in this community, nor am I pursuing it, however want to supply some wisdom of what I've learned as there are many complex things that go into 'balancing' a server when it comes to interactions. I've also RP'd over a dozen unique characters from all sorts of background and roles.

Forward;

What are we all expecting from RDR:RP, and how can we as a new community build toward that overall goal?

While this is in no way a reflection of how things will work, I just wanted to put forth some information to consider for those who do make these types of decisions.

The way this will be structured is I will give the historical summary of each section, then provide my opinion on how to incorporate the historical aspect into an advanced RDR RP Community.

My opinions;

I will sprinkle in a few of my opinions in each section. The Community Leaders should always take into consideration every suggestion people have, outline a long and short term goal, and lay out the roadmap that the community can be guided to the next step.

The initial focus on developing these systems should be similar to the way the organically evolved in the old west. During the beginning phase; there will most likely be many criminals, a few civilians, and a handful of experienced Lawmen.

As things and systems mature, another step towards advancing the more complex things can be taken and established.

For the Record; Much of the following is a Summary of the book, “Crime, Justice and Retribution in the American West, 1850-1900”, alongside personal and researched information over the years that I wish to share.


Section 1;
The Historical State of the Wild West in late 1800s

People came to the West for a multitude of reasons; there was the common folk who pursued Gold / Silver Rushes, the economic opportunities presented by the Railroads, homesteading with ranching / farming, and for the most part just wanted to be left in peace.

There was the criminal class; escaping a shady and criminal past they left in the East;

There were the Lawmen, who were either ordinary folk just trying to protect their neighbors from the criminal class.

This was also the era right after the Civil War, so many individuals alive during the late 1800s had lived and fought in terrible conditions, which left many with uneasy tensions between previous loyalties. The war also created hardened men who went on to be voracious and intimidating Lawmen, and equal amounts of ruthless and cold blooded murderers and gang leaders.

Section 2; Factions

The following is an overview of the separate factions that can be identified in the Old West. Just because one person might fall into one category, doesn’t mean they were necessarily restricted to that category. For example; it wasn’t uncommon for Cattle Ranchers to assist in Bounty hunting, or Town Marshals to appoint known previously criminal gunmen to help enforce the law; even if more times than not it didn’t work out.

1. Factions;
   1. Civilians;
      1. Civilians are vital to any Roleplay Community. They bring an extra dimension outside of just 'Cops and Robbers' and help create truly unique scenarios and atmosphere.
      2. May also be part-time Vigilantes / Bounty Hunters
   2. Vigilantes / Bounty hunters / Posses
      1. If we are staying true to the old west, it will make 'policing' a very difficult job, as it should be. Law and Order in the Old West was mostly enforced on posse's, bounty hunters, private 'hired gunmen', guards, and in some cases ordinary citizens who were temporarily deputized for assistance of Lawmen, and when none of those were effective; anonymous vigilante mobs.
   3. Criminals / Outlaws
      1. As this RP is using RDR as a medium, many folks will be leaning on Criminal RP initially / a majority of the time. Criminal RP is essential to create conflict between other Criminals, Posses, Civilians, and Lawmen.
   4. Lawmen (Sheriff, State / Town Marshals, and their deputies)
      1. Despite what TV and Movies depict, Lawmen's job were pretty mundane on the daily. The duties often involved keeping the peace when called upon, processing those who are being prosecuted for civil disturbances / theft / assault ect.
         1. More on Lawmen below.
   5. Justices of the Peace (Judiciary)
      1. These were the individuals who represented the Judicial side of things and ensured a proper, constitutionally required trial with a Jury of Peers to convict. Those accused may 'Plead Out' to avoid a Trial and accept the punishment without going through to a Trial.
         1. Will most likely be the last faction to develop if following an organic timeline.

My opinion;

There should be at least 5 'factions' per-se when it comes to a character’s foundation approaching Old West Roleplay, and to create a balanced system of interaction and an overall positive 'Meta' to the community. Those characters may venture or dabble in other factions, or evolve over time; however, having a good balance of people with differing faction focus will lead to dynamic and dramatic RP for everyone as a whole.

(continued below)

 

[Frank Devine]

Section 3; Lawmen in General
There were different types of Lawmen, each with a specific jurisdiction and focus. We will focus on the heads of each for the most part for the overview;

1. State Marshal;
   1. Appointed by the President, State Marshals and Deputies were mostly in charge of serving Subpoenas and pursuing Warrants to those accused of breaking Federal Law.
   2. Their Jurisdiction could be an entire State or Territory,
      1. Similar to modern ‘State Police’.
2. County Sheriff
   1. Similar to Current procedure, The Sheriff is Elected by the registered voters and included the Jurisdiction of a County and therefore was more Political than it was ‘hands on’ as most of the Deputies would do the gruntwork.
   2. Responsible for the Jailing, book keeping and fining of individuals, whether temporary or awaiting trial, and was also responsible for collection of County Taxes.
3. Town Marshal;
   1. The Town Marshal was appointed by the City Council / Mayor, and had the responsibility of modern Police / Peace Officers; to keep the peace and arrest the disorderly within the Jurisdiction of the City. Most towns had at least a Jailhouse of some sort.
   2. Majority of income would be via a fine paid by the guilty.
4. Deputies;
   1. Anyone could be Deputized underneath any of the appointed individuals, so long as they had a decently positive reputation

My opinion;

There should only be 1 faction to begin with; State Marshal and their deputies. These will mostly comprise of people who have Roleplayed as LEO and the State Marshal must be a leader, willing to create systems of recruitment of deputies, training, communication, operating procedures while also delegating tasks.

Once mature enough, the State Marshal may recommend for appointment of County Sheriffs with smaller jurisdictions to focus on, while maintaining a system of communication and book-keeping. If advanced enough, a town marshal or two can then be established for the larger cities / RP hubs.

Section 4; Enforcing the Law and Lawmen

The Old West had fairly bare bones procedures when it came to Criminal Punishment, which varied from a night in Jail to sleep off a Drunk and Disorderly with a small fine, or a public Hanging for more severe crimes such as Horse Thievery and Murder.

When someone accused of a Crime is at large, most of the time the Lawmen relied on the Vigilantes and Bountyhounters via a public ‘Wanted’ status.

Wanted statuses might also be issued if someone was just wanted for questioning as well. If the individual wanted would not voluntarily turn themselves in, Bounty Hunters might step in to make a profit.


Bringing a person in Alive was a key part in getting paid. If the Wanted person non-violently resisted and they were killed, the Bounty Hunter would be Prosecuted for Murder unless it could be proved it was in self defense, which was often the arguement if there were no witnesses.

1. Simple example RP Scenario from beginning to end;
   1. Citizen is in a General Store only to exit and see a Thief ride away on their legally owned horse.
   2. Citizen reports the Crime to those nearby, and to the Town Marshal / Deputy with description of the offender, type of horse, ect.
   3. Town Marshal reports it to the 'Sheriff' via 'telegram' and a County Wide search for the thief is pursued, alongside a 'public bulletin' for the Vigilantes to be on the lookout for the described Thief, and a small bounty/reward for bringing them in alive.
   4. Thief is confronted by a Bounty Hunter, however after giving the opportunity to surrender a shootout occurs, wounding both, however they part ways and the thief escapes.
   5. Thief now has 2 direct witnesses to the various crimes which are reported to the Lawmen.
   6. Thief will now has a Larger Bounty on their head, and if they do not turn themselves in within 48 / however many RL days to answer for their Crimes, they will become an Outlaw.
      1. Outlawry could also expand to have a Justice of the Peace (Judge) issue the order after review and Judiciary maturation.

My opinion;

If we are to approach the setting and RP in a serious sense; then the above are proposed as a base Foundation for Enforcing and Apprehending criminals, and how complex it can become after everything matures.

Also a lot of criminal enforcement will come down to how it is handled in game as well, and how much information a Lawman has access to and what is communicated to them via mechanics.

Will it be similar to GTA5:RP when local AI report crimes? IE: if an NPC witnesses a crime and leaves the area, would a Lawman be informed at the local Sheriff / Town Marshal’s Office with a description and known ‘area ping’ on the map? Only admins and developers will be able to answer that question in time.

Section 5; Outlwary

Straight from the Dictionary; "Outlawry, act of putting a person beyond the protection of the law for his refusal to become amenable to the court having legal jurisdiction.

Translation and historical practice; Once an individual has demonstrated that they have no respect for the Local, State, or Federal Government and all attempts to bring them before a Court to be prosecuted have failed, the most extreme measure was the person would become an "Outlaw" - which literally means 'Outside the Protection of Law'.

Furthermore, in extreme circumstances in history an Outlaw could be murdered, maimed, hung, shot, ect. with no recourse or charges for the individual(s) doing the act from any Prosecuting Authority, aka the Government.

In a RP sense; once someone is Declared an Outlaw they can pretty much be Shot on Sight (with suggested server rule that they must be given a chance to surrender if by ambush) by anyone for a bounty and the Lawmen will not prosecute said individual.

I recommend this system to give more ‘risk’ to being an Outlaw and the adrenaline rush by being pursued by being on the ‘Most Wanted’ list.

Section 6; Old West ‘Code of Ethics’

The Code of Ethics was a set of unwritten guidelines that those venturing in the west in the late 1800s should adhere to to be considered an honorable man.

The book, ‘Crime, Justice, and Retribution in the American West, 1850-1900’ had a few solid quotes on this aspect;

“A man’s word is sacred and people were supposed to do what they said they would do.” (p. 19)

“Rules of the code addressed fighting. A man must not shoot another man in the back or shoot an unarmed man. The most cowardly method of fighting was to shoot someone in the back as he passed by. No one should ambush him from hiding. A man was supposed to give some warning of his intention to shoot, even if he gave very little notice and was quick with his gun.” (pg.19)

“In the Old West, a distinction was made between a ‘killing’ and a ‘murder’... If a man was armed, had a chance to draw his gun to defend himself, and was shot from the front, the situation was considered by most people to have resulted in a fair fight and was considered to be a ‘Killing’, or Justifiable homicide. The term ‘Murder’ was more commonly used for a death due to a sneak attack on an unarmed man, or when someone was shot in the back from hiding.’ (pg 193)

However the above was not always the case, as dishonorable men would typically attempt to gain every advantage on any person they premeditatively targeted, such as an ambush or a shot to the back of the head with no warning. These individuals were quick to the top of the Most Wanted list and on the road to Outlawry.


My Opinion;


Implementation and following the ‘Honor Code’ should be on the mind for anyone who is playing a reputable person, and those who do not follow the ‘honor code’ should acknowledge that they will be dealt with more severe punishment via RP.

(Continued below)

 

[Frank Devine]

Section 8; Local, County, State Government and Lawmaking.

Historically in the Old West when towns were established little rule of law outside of the ‘Code of Ethics’ and putting into effect simple trials based on a western version of the Eastern State’s English Common Law as a combination of accepted moral behavior was established.

After being incorporated into a County; Cities would elect a City Council and Mayor who would establish the local government establish local ordinances, appoint a Town Marshal, and begin to enforce the Law.

Territories / States had their own legislative body whom would pass legislation to be enforced as well.

Most laws were pretty basic and focused on protecting people and property such as Assault / Attempted Homicide, and Horse / Cattle Theft, while minor crimes; ‘Disturbing the Peace’ could include minor offenses such as fist-fighting or just being drunk in public.

In my opinion regarding Lawmaking and Legislation.

As true federal system of lawmaking would be hard to implement, with my experience in this area I recommend the following short and long term goals; Have the Community / Admin team decide how harsh or light sentencing should be overall when it comes to punishment, and how the pacing should be; serious/hardcore or light hearted / action oriented as the overall Roleplay Goal.

As for initial set of laws; A small delegation of respective faction delegates via election / appointment / whatever should sit down as a legislative committee to decide the initial laws and punishment. Call it a Constitutional Convention of the Territories or something clever.

Delegates should include at least 2 member delegates from Upper Staff (‘Management’), and the following delegates to be elected via nomination or selected by Management (however Management feels appropriate) and individuals who intend and main either Civilian, Criminal, Law Enforcement, or Judiciary. Among the Convention a Chairman should be elected to guide the meeting and delegate tasks as needed, and is responsible for the final draft of the Constitution being signed upon by the Factions.

The US Constitution and the period specific Western Territory / State constitution should obviously be the foundation.

Section 9; Judiciary

The Judiciary did exist, however most of the time they were to settle land-claim disputes and other property manners, as well as sentence those who had been convicted. I imagine a Court system to be the last to mature / be implemented, as trials require a matured Law Enforcement Agency and is responsive to the needs of the server and overall community, alongside available game-mechanics.

1. Judges were pretty rare, however they did exist and were expected to provide a fair and balanced constitutionally guaranteed Trial for anyone accused who proclaimed innocence.
2. As the BAR association was very barebones, many folk could represent another in a Court of Law as long as they were Civil, respectable, and understood procedure.

My opinion;
A Barebones Judiciary can be established with 1 or 2 judges, and would start small with possibly only handling Perma-Death cases, or could be expanded quickly depending on adoption by the community at large, those interested in participating and other considerations.

Conclusion;
Still reading? Good! What started off as a few paragraphs to get some ideas on paper has expanded to the above synopsis, review, and suggestions to be considered.

While the above is just a theoretical concept of what could be a roadmap, there are probably other ones behind the scenes I am not privy to. I was asked to help write up some thoughts on these matters.

If even only one person has taken away new information from this post, then it has served its purpose and thank you for reading.


Regards,

Frank Devine

 

[Frank Devine]

UPDATE 4/30/2020

This was initially posted back in November before we had a RedM server to theocraft how it could be, however it has been many month and many things may have changed, but going to leave the original as historical record to refer to for the points that are still relevant.

I may re-write it when I have time and everything is stable, aka not changing from week to week.

 

[Johnboy Cavanagh]

Very impressive

 

[Mitch Donaghey]

This was a very insightful read, friend, and I see by your forum tags that you're in dialogue with the developers. I'm happy to have one as thorough as you on board. I've personally taken away a bunch of thoughts from your post, and I'm sure others have as well.

I agree with trying to let systems mature before adding layers of complexity, although I think we need to be mindful of having too long of a "grace period" with little to none established lawmen and judiciaries, as the 'sparring' and tension between the factions is what keeps things exciting in my experience. I think complexity and incentives for civilians are also really important, especially after the first "craze" has worn off.

Take the old West into account to keep things authentic, something I'm certain the majority of us are interested in but don't become too restricted by it in your development. Allow yourselves to take risks as well, trying out systems of organization and other elements. We're all excited about what RedM and WWRP can become, but we're also all aware that it'll take time and effort to get it right. I reckon those of us who're already here are willing to stumble a bit. Give us a stage and we'll make a play.

Those are my five cents at least.

Again, thank you very much for the insightful post, Frank.

 

[James Harper]

I'd definitely be interested in the judiciary side of things and helping to build that. I've built judicial systems on more than 2 FiveM servers in the past, such as writing guidelines and legal codes. I know a good amount of IRL law (mostly from the state of California as that is where GTA is set) and have plenty of experience of RP as a lawyer too.

 

[Jay Khal]

I am brand new here but to see what thought and insight you bring to the table is pretty inspiring. I think these points are very valid and I thank you for your time in putting this information together. I look forward to see how this type of mindset will be applied to the server. Kudos

 

[Logan Kelly]

Incredibly detailed guide. Thank you!

 

[Frank Devine]

Bump / update

Was updated in the previous reserved post, however will put this here as well

"This was initially posted back in November before we had a RedM server to theory-craft how it could be, however it has been many months and many things may have changed, but going to leave the original as historical record to refer to for the points that are still relevant.

I may re-write it when I have time and everything is stable, aka not changing from week to week. "