Runoff for State Rep Third Seat

[Richard Hart]

This thread is an entirely OOC vote. We don't hold IC polls in OOC threads like this, just as a heads up.

For clarification, I wasn't saying it's an IC poll. More that OOC, I'm making a distinction that the way this was handled in character was fine to me. Do I agree it was the best choice? Not necessarily, but it makes sense as to why characters might do it. However, from an in-game perspective, my character would of course argue against this. So for those saying a lot of IC voices were opposed to this, those are reasons that shouldn't require an OOC forums vote.

As you have stated before, would the knowledge of the coin flip / dice roll changed the results? I don't think so either. Moreover, I believe there was an IC decision in the past to leave it that way. Any number of people in that server to argue it wouldn't change a law or official decision at that moment. So I'd say fight the process IC to change it or as some have already pointed out there is already an existing Constitutional line that gives the current Governor discretion on the matter. I get as a community we should have a voice to change things to make it clear/fair, but I'm against hasty OOC votes from (what I can tell) all IC made choices. With that said, I'm also not opposed to a run-off vote if it's handled IC like seems to already be here. It'd be a different story entirely if there was some sort of OOC mechanical mistake or reason for this, but as far as I can tell it's people don't like coin flip decisions. Which is valid and I agree, so let's change the way it works through RP.

TL;DR - RP it out.

 

[Alexander Jefferson]

With that said, I'm also not opposed to a run-off vote if it's handled IC like seems to already be here. It'd be a different story entirely if there was some sort of OOC mechanical mistake or reason for this, but as far as I can tell it's people don't like coin flip decisions. Which is valid and I agree, so let's change the way it works through RP.

TL;DR - RP it out.

That legislation can't force a runoff vote in THIS election, it would be an Unconstitutional law passed. If people really think it was handled strictly IC, then they're not looking at the fact that it was handled IC'ly, then taken OOC in order to get the outcome that they wanted.

There is a Constitutional provision to handle this situation and people simply don't like it. They can change it for FUTURE elections, but not this one. I am not against a runoff, but I don't like people taking it OOC to get the solution they want.

The coin flip is still in use in politics to THIS DAY to break ties in elections. This could've lead to interesting legislation and RP to change it for the future elections. Sadly, we've lost that possibility because people decided to take it OOC.

 

[Tommy True]

Sadly, we've lost that possibility because people decided to take it OOC.

I wonder if it's still a possibility. Speaking just as myself and not staff, it was all legitimate RP backed by the state's constitution. I wouldn't mind seeing a run off, but I would rather we honor the RP that has already happened. And if people want to be OOC salty, then too bad. We're not here on this server to be OOC salty. We're here to honor the roleplay, no matter what.

 

[Henry Clerk]

I want to begin by stating that this result (The 50/50 tie) generated a LOT of RP in a very short amount of time. Emotions were VERY high for a lot of people, and i can only speak for myself but I was disoriented and swept up in a ton of different directions, so I can see where the frustration, anger, and disappointment are coming from with respect to the result and how it was handled. Yeah, its an IC election for an IC position, but even in the application to run it is made very clear that Reps and Governors are both IC and OOC responsibilities. So given that there is an OOC element to the elections, I can also see the OOC frustration at a lack of communication with regards to HOW the tie would be resolved, and the lack of engagement once that method was initially called into question.

Anyway, all that said I think the fairest thing to do, especially given that there will already be a runoff election for Governor, is to do a runoff election for the disputed seat.

Thank you to the Staff, Admins, and others who put this together OOC and have led this community as best as they can for so long. Thank you to everyone who ran, campaigned, voted, or engaged with the Roleplay that was generated from these events. Whatever the result(s), we can all hopefully move forward with respect. I'm very tired and today was a whirlwind so if I've said anything buck wild please tell me off.

 

[William Henry]

There's a lot of things going on in this post, and I'm glad it has opened up a discussion. However, a couple of things I would like to say.

Thing the first- This was an OOC decision by staff from before the election or seemingly the government existed, and as such it did not feel like something we could even have handled IC. A place to discuss on the Discord was opened up so we went there to discuss it. I would also like to point out that we DID voice our opinions IC before we came to talk about them OOC, so do not assume we can't maintain a balance of IC and OOC. I am sorry there were people that came out of the gate with nastiness and not discussion, but a lot of us did come to talk about it with our fellow community members.

Thing the second- Please do not assume that our being upset has a single lick to do with who ended up winning. A lot of us were livid before a die had even been rolled and left before that started, too. I'd be as upset about how this was handled had Ramona won as I was that she didn't. It wouldn't feel like a win, it feels like we wasted weeks of effort to have the decision taken out of the hands of the people. Do not do us the disservice of assuming that we came to express our distaste for the decision because we're sore losers. That's rude, unnecessary, and frankly disappointing.

Thing the third- I keep seeing everyone vilify the idea of handling things as a community OOC in any forum. I know the easy answer is "handle it in RP" but we are people before we are characters, and we are a community of people before we are a community of New Alexandria. We can handle our business in and out of character and neither has to suffer. I promise you that we can disagree and discuss without ruining either the RP or our opinion of one another.

Again I would like to say my thanks to the staff for allowing us to have this discussion and engaging in it with us, and for even being open to the idea that the community gets a voice. I know plenty of communities where the response would have been "Shut up, we're doing it this way and you can deal with it" without the people even being heard. So seriously, thank you for all your work that you have done today and the work you did getting it so that we can even have a government and a discussion at all.

 

[Mato Hanska]

And people contested this. Loudly. Democracy.

Cause the constitution gives a flip about democracy when? This is Representative democracy not direct. You need to amend the constitution to amend how we do this. Otherwise why bother? If we can toss out Constitutional Law so be it. I declare myself King of New Alexandria and Lord Protectorate of Leymone. Now bring me my dynamite arrows I want to hunt some murder kitties!

 

[Ramona Ryder]

Cause the constitution gives a flip about democracy when? This is Representative democracy not direct. You need to amend the constitution to amend how we do this. Otherwise why bother? If we can toss out Constitutional Law so be it. I declare myself King of New Alexandria and Lord Protectorate of Leymone. No bring me my dynamite arrows I want to hunt some murder kitties!

No where in the constitution does it say that the Governor can decide via coinflip either, so your statement applies the same against what happened. In fact it very specifically states in Section 2 Article III: "State Representatives shall be elected by the Citizen population at large."

A coin flip done first to 3 has nothing to do with that. It's not even an even 50/50 odds.

People are asking for what they were told through the constitution and through weeks of campaigning, no one is asking for war against emus. No one is personally attacking anyone either, it's simply that expectations were not met on the standard that is set by the state constitution.

 

[Mato Hanska]

My opinion, may not be popular.

Article 2, Section 3, clause 2 can be interpreted that the Governor may decide the result in a tie. It doe not say how that decision is to be made.

A coin flip / dice roll is a valid option if the Governor decided it so.

No where in the constitution does it say that the Governor can decide via coinflip either, so your statement applies the same against what happened. In fact it very specifically states in Section 2 Article III: "State Representatives shall be elected by the Citizen population at large."

A coin flip done first to 3 has nothing to do with that. It's not even an even 50/50 odds.

People are asking for what they were told through the constitution and through weeks of campaigning, no one is asking for war against emus. No one is personally attacking anyone either, it's simply that expectations were not met on the standard that is set by the state constitution.

Governor said it's a coin flip, than it's a coin flip, says the chief judge.... DON'T FERGET THE QUARTER! I for one don't mind because for once we can do something with the small change we can't put in the bank for no odd reason.

 

[Elylida Beaumonte]

SO i understand where you are all coming from and there is a lot of really good points here, i agree the coin flip was not something i expected nor do i think it was good, but in saying that this is how it is done, the people did have their say. It was going to be one of us regardless of which one, The only issue i have with this is that it has gotten to this point, We are trying to RP it out in game and you guys wanna spoil it by blowing it up OOC.

I was really disappointed to see what happened in discord not to mention it was against the rules "Do not discuss current on going RP that is happening in discord" its a pretty well known rule. I don't care who wins i was in shock yesterday and my emotions ran high, but i still wanted to RP it out and make sure the people had their say on who got in.

A lot of people know i was upset yesterday cause winning didn't feel like winning tbh, and there could be some amazing RP behind this, but this vote is not the way to do it, this could have made and broke my characters emotions, her career, hell even could have made her loose her mind, there is so many angles i could have taken it, but now you are forcing the issue with a OOC vote.

RP comes first people.

 

[Ramona Ryder]

Governor said it's a coin flip, than it's a coin flip, says the chief judge.... DON'T FERGET THE QUARTER! I for one don't mind because for once we can do something with the small change we can't put in the bank for no odd reason.

He may have cited that section but if you look at that section it does not say that whatsoever. It says that the Governor appoints the elected state representatives to one of the 3 districts (Lemoyne, New Hanover and West Elizabeth).

Please be respectful even though you disagree.

 

[Ramona Ryder]

SO i understand where you are all coming from and there is a lot of really good points here, i agree the coin flip was not something i expected nor do i think it was good, but in saying that this is how it is done, the people did have their say. It was going to be one of us regardless of which one, The only issue i have with this is that it has gotten to this point, We are trying to RP it out in game and you guys wanna spoil it by blowing it up OOC.

I was really disappointed to see what happened in discord not to mention it was against the rules "Do not discuss current on going RP that is happening in discord" its a pretty well known rule. I don't care who wins i was in shock yesterday and my emotions ran high, but i still wanted to RP it out and make sure the people had their say on who got in.

A lot of people know i was upset yesterday cause winning didn't feel like winning tbh, and there could be some amazing RP behind this, but this vote is not the way to do it, this could have made and broke my characters emotions, her career, hell even could have made her loose her mind, there is so many angles i could have taken it, but now you are forcing the issue with a OOC vote.

RP comes first people.

With all due respect Fezza, this vote/poll is merely a run off of the limited one that occured in character on a 32 slot server, which half was filled by people who had to be there. Saying that allowing it to go to a run off is disrespectful to the RP that did happen yesterday, irregardless of any OOC actions that occured, the In Character roleplay the occured HEAVILY suggested a community desire for a run off vote, to the point emergency legislation voted in by your own character was passed in order to make a point of exactly how upset the community was. The current representatives, in character, made actions in character that clearly demonstrated a desire of the people for a run off vote. Ignoring all of that because there was OOC upset is disrespectful to all of that RP and that RP and In Character actions should not be ignored because of OOC reactions.

 

[William Henry]

but now you are forcing the issue with a OOC vote.

RP comes first people.

I really, truly understand how you feel about that, but I would like to remind you that no one demanded this vote in that channel. We took to the channel provided to express our dissatisfaction with the decision to resolve the election this way and staff heard us and put this poll together of their own accord. No one forced this OOC vote, so please everyone stop saying we did. RP came first, we then took to the provided forum for discussion and HAD a discussion. Discussions are good for communities!

 

[Melody Carrington]

I want to echo Ely's sentiments here: Roleplay comes first.

I think this OOC discussion regarding the IC political system is unwarranted. Clearly IC emotions have bled OOC and that is a rule break and in my eyes bad form. If your character has an issue with it, take it up in RP. If you as a player have an issue with it, submit a suggestion. These are the acceptable ways I have seen to handle things on this server. However, in this case, for those interested in politics, there are plenty of IC scenarios to play out.

ROLEPLAY IT OUT!

 

[Ramona Ryder]

I want to echo Ely's sentiments here: Roleplay comes first.

I think this OOC discussion regarding the IC political system is unwarranted. Clearly IC emotions have bled OOC and that is a rule break and in my eyes bad form. If your character has an issue with it, take it up in RP. If you as a player have an issue with it, submit a suggestion. These are the acceptable ways I have seen to handle things on this server. However, in this case, for those interested in politics, there are plenty of IC scenarios to play out.

ROLEPLAY IT OUT!

Discussion as a general issue is never unwarranted. If you would like to limit all future political decisions In Character to the 32 slot server size, then you're going to have issues. Signing up for the election in the first place was done here on the forums, as well as the signing of legislation. People are very interested in RPing it out but the continued insistance that the RP that occurred should be completely disregarded because of OOC is against what you all keep saying.

Ignore the OOC. Pay attention to the fact that the community demanded a run off election and made a point of doing so in roleplay, through the limited crowd verbally disagreeing to the current elected, in character, officials making emergency legislation to make a point of the desire from their community that they were elected in character and appointed in character to represent, made their communities in character desires clear through RP.

 

[Melody Carrington]

Discussion as a general issue is never unwarranted. If you would like to limit all future political decisions In Character to the 32 slot server size, then you're going to have issues. Signing up for the election in the first place was done here on the forums, as well as the signing of legislation. People are very interested in RPing it out but the continued insistance that the RP that occurred should be completely disregarded because of OOC is against what you all keep saying.

Ignore the OOC. Pay attention to the fact that the community demanded a run off election and made a point of doing so in roleplay, through the limited crowd verbally disagreeing to the current elected, in character, officials making emergency legislation to make a point of the desire from their community that they were elected in character and appointed in character to represent, made their communities in character desires clear through RP.

I will refer you to this :

This thread is an entirely OOC vote. We don't hold IC polls in OOC threads like this, just as a heads up.

And most of the discussion occurring in this thread and previously on DIscord is OOC. That was what my comment was in reference to.

 

[Ramona Ryder]

I will refer you to this :



And most of the discussion occurring in this thread and previously on DIscord is OOC. That was what my comment was in reference to.

So again, ignore the OOC. What happens will be based on the roleplay that occured and if a run-off happens don't blame it on the OOC.

 

[Alexander Jefferson]

The runoff will be ordered strictly for OOC reasons and not IC reasons. The only way for a runoff to be ordered IC is by a judge, what the legislature did yesterday is irrelevant for THIS election. It clarifies for future elections.

 

[Ramona Ryder]

The runoff will be ordered strictly for OOC reasons and not IC reasons. The only way for a runoff to be ordered IC is by a judge, what the legislature did yesterday is irrelevant for THIS election. It clarifies for future elections.

Representing the peoples desires isn't irrelevant, it merely doesn't have legal authority over this election. It's disrespectful to the intention of it being emergency legislature to call it irrelevant. The run off can be ordered other ways, by the electoral body or federal government intervention or as you say by order of a judge.

 

[William Hayes]

Closed. We'll host a runoff.